Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/04/1994 01:42 PM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                   SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE                                  
                        February 4, 1994                                       
                           1:42 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
 Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman                                           
 Senator George Jacko                                                          
 Senator Dave Donley                                                           
 Senator Suzanne Little                                                        
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman                                                
                                                                               
  OTHERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Bert Sharp                                                            
 Senator Loren Leman                                                           
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
 SENATE CS FOR CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 212(JUD)                                  
 "An Act relating to a factor in aggravation of the presumptive term           
 of a criminal sentence, and prohibiting the referral of a sentence            
 based on application of that factor to a three-judge sentencing               
 panel as an extraordinary circumstance."                                      
                                                                               
 CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 239(O&G)                                               
 "An Act relating to evidence of financial responsibility provided             
 by persons who conduct oil operations; and providing for an                   
 effective date."                                                              
                                                                               
 SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 39                                                
 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska             
 to guarantee, in addition to the right of the people to keep and              
 bear arms as approved by the voters at the time of ratification of            
 the state Constitution, that the individual right to keep and bear            
 arms shall not be denied or infringed by the state or a political             
 subdivision of the state.                                                     
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
 HB 212 - See Judiciary minutes dated 2/2/94.                                  
                                                                               
 SB 239 - See Oil & Gas minutes dated 1/24/94 and 2/2/94.                      
                                                                               
 SJR 39 - See State Affairs minutes dated 1/21/94.                             
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
 Michael Conway                                                                
 Director, Division of Spill Prevention and Response                           
 Department of Environmental Conservation                                      
 410 Willoughby Ave.                                                           
 Suite 105                                                                     
 Juneau, AK 99801-1795                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Reviewed SB 239.                                       
                                                                               
 Ray Gillespie                                                                 
 Association of Refined Fuel Distributors                                      
 9478 Riverbend Court                                                          
 Juneau, AK 99801                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Reviewed SB 239.                                       
                                                                               
 Tom Lakosh                                                                    
 P.O. Box 100648                                                               
 Anchorage, AK 99510                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Reviewed SB 239.                                       
                                                                               
 Dean Guaneli                                                                  
 Chief Assistant Attorney General                                              
 Criminal Division, Department of Law                                          
 P.O. Box 110300                                                               
 Juneau, AK 99811-0300                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed SJR 39.                                        
                                                                               
 John George                                                                   
 Alaska Outdoor Council                                                        
 Juneau, AK                                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Mike Chryst                                                                   
 P.O.Box 982488                                                                
 Wasilla, AK 99687                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Sally Chryst                                                                  
 P.O. Box 982488                                                               
 Wasilla, AK 99687                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 David McGraw                                                                  
 1500 Catalina Dr.                                                             
 Wasilla, AK 99654                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Scott Coryell                                                                 
 P.O. Box 1044                                                                 
 Ward Cove, AK 99928                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Les Zetterberg                                                                
 P.O. Box 663                                                                  
 Ward Cove, AK 99928                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Lyle Stack                                                                    
 P.O. Box 8594                                                                 
 Ketchikan, AK 99901                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Wesley Jones                                                                  
 HCR 64, Box 535                                                               
 Seward, AK 99664                                                              
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Scott Hamann                                                                  
 P.O. Box 934                                                                  
 Kenai, AK 99611                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Michael Neligh                                                                
 P.O. Box 1937                                                                 
 Kenai, AK 99611                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Greg Machacek                                                                 
   P.O. Box 56245                                                              
 North Pole, AK 99705                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Rudy Vetter                                                                   
 P.O. Box 70342                                                                
 Fairbanks, AK 99707                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 David Miller                                                                  
 P.O. Box 470                                                                  
 Barrow, Ak. 99723                                                             
 State Capitol                                                                 
 Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Dwayne Uppland                                                                
   Anchorage, Ak                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:     Concerned with ambiguous language in SJR 39.    9.   
                                                                               
 Charles McKee                                                                 
 1508 W. 43rd, #7                                                              
 Anchorage, AK 99503                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
 Portia Babcock, Legislative Aide                                              
 c/o Senator Leman                                                             
 Capitol Building                                                              
 Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                         
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 39.                                      
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
 TAPE 94-5, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
    VICE-  CHAIRMAN HALFORD  called the Judiciary Committee meeting to    to   
 order at 1:42 p.m.                                                            
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD introduced  HB 212  (SENTENCING:  AGGRAVATING           
 FACTORS) and the CS draft as the first order of business before the           
 committee.  He asked for testimony regarding  HB 212.                         
                                                                               
 DAVID HARDING, representing Representative MacLean, expressed                 
 Representative MacLean's view that the changes in the CS were                 
 appropriate.                                                                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR JACKO moved to adopt CS 8-LS0780/J of HB 212.  Hearing no             
 objections, it was so ordered.                                                
                                                                               
 SENATOR LITTLE asked about the difference in the new fiscal note.             
                                                                               
 DAVID HARDING stated that this fiscal note used some guess work due           
 to the lack of records other than the offenses themselves.  He                
 explained that Diane Schenker used a formula to arrive at the                 
 presumed fiscal impacts.                                                      
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD reminded the committee that this would be               
 decided by the Finance Committee, where he predicted this fiscal              
 note would be rejected.                                                       
                                                                               
 SENATOR LITTLE commented that impacts on the Correctional                     
 Department should be kept in mind.                                            
                                                                               
 SENATOR JACKO moved CSHB212 out of committee with individual                  
 recommendations.  Hearing no objections, it was so ordered.                   
                                                                               
 Number 113                                                                    
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD introduced  SB 239  (NONCRUDE OIL OPERATIONS            
 FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY) as the next order of business before the            
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MICHAEL CONWAY, Director of Spill Prevention and Response in the              
 Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC), stated support in             
 continuing the waiver provided in SB 239.  The department is                  
 neutral on the position of changing the components of financial               
 responsibility.  He mentioned that under bonding requirements DEC             
 works with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) in order to              
 ensure that small operators are able to have the financial                    
 resources that are onshore.                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asked if the responsibility for the transportation             
 sector is in Section (1)(A) and the onshore exploration facility              
 sector is addressed in Section (1) (3).                                       
                                                                               
 MICHAEL CONWAY stated that SB 239 addresses onshore explorations              
 regarding the proof of financial responsibility.  He pointed out              
 that these changes were entered by Senator Sharp who could speak to           
 their intention.  The waiver of the direct action requirement is              
 for all transporters, handlers of petroleum products but it mainly            
 effects the small operators.  SENATOR DONLEY clarified Mr. Conway's           
 position and asked if he had requested the changes in Section                 
 (1)(3).  MICHAEL CONWAY agreed that he had not requested the                  
 change.                                                                       
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asked if the onshore exploration facilities had                
 problems getting this insurance.  MICHAEL CONWAY stated that some             
 of the smaller operators feel that this money can be better spent             
 on the drilling operation due to their tight financial situations.            
 The high limits of financial responsibility required for some of              
 the operators is viewed as a block to entering into onshore                   
 operations.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 195                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY inquired about the department's support of not                 
 changing the statutes for the large operations, but lowering the              
 amount of liability for the smaller operations.  MIKE CONWAY said             
 that the department would be neutral due to the lack of data that             
 could indicate the basis of changing the limits.                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY observed that this change from $5 million to $1                
 million was immense and questioned the department's neutral stance.           
 MICHAEL CONWAY said that if the legislation passed, the department            
 would work with DNR.  Mr. Conway pointed out that the difference              
 with an onshore facility is that the operating conditions indicate            
 easier response and access as opposed to offshore operations,                 
 individual cases should be reviewed.                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY suggested that individual cases could be reviewed if           
 there was a system which would point out smaller operations with              
 less exposure of damage to the state.  Then maybe a lesser amount             
 would be reasonable.  He noted that the departments are the                   
 professionals and would appreciate their input.                               
                                                                               
 MICHAEL CONWAY pointed out that the department keeps track of the             
 financial responsibility of these operators, but there are no risk            
 management officers or anyone on staff who has the ability to look            
 at these insurance decisions.                                                 
 SENATOR LITTLE asked if this bill passed, how damage compensation             
 could be obtained in the event of a spill.                                    
                                                                               
 MICHAEL CONWAY explained that the financial responsibility is                 
 demonstrated by self insurance or insurance, a surety, the                    
 guarantee, a letter of credit approved by the department or other             
 proof of financial responsibility including proof of financial                
 responsibility provided by a group of insurers who have agreed to             
 cover pollution risks of the members under the terms approved by              
 the department.                                                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR LITTLE asked if the terms required now are similar to the             
 terms written in this legislation.  MICHAEL CONWAY said that SB 239           
 only changes the limits or amount required; the terms and methods             
 of proof are not changed.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 296                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LITTLE inquired of the state of Alaska's liability now or             
 under this bill.  MICHAEL CONWAY noted that currently the state has           
 liability and SB 239 only changes the limits.  He expressed that              
 DNR does not have information indicating the likelihood of a spill.           
 DNR believes that the likelihood of a spill is less in an                     
 exploratory situation otherwise each site must be reviewed.                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY clarified that SB 239 was only for exploratory                 
 operations.  He asked if there was a separate requirement for the             
 bonding for ongoing production facilities.  VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD             
 pointed out that Section 1 of CSSB 239 explains that issue.                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asked if the department would oppose making the                
 proof of fiscal responsibility requirement for onshore exploration            
 a minimum of $1 million and up to $5 million pursuant of                      
 regulations.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MICHAEL CONWAY reiterated that the department would remain neutral            
 because there is no information indicating why this risk is                   
 considered greater or less.                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR SHARP pointed out that the Oil & Gas CS for SB 239                    
 recognizes that existing statutes mandate levels of proof of                  
 financial responsibility and liability that are unrealistic to the            
 point that coverage is not available and never has been.  Section             
 1 only reduces the mandatory liability limits to more reasonably              
 available levels; however, the reduced levels remain ten times                
 higher than any other producing state in the U.S.  Most states do             
 not have liability responsibility.  Section 2 makes the temporary             
 waivers for shippers of refined products permanent, but Senator               
 Sharp noted that while third party coverage is not available zero             
 financial responsibility is provided.                                         
                                                                               
 Senator Sharp asserted that his portion of SB 239 only provides               
 reductions for onshore oil and gas exploration activities that in             
 nine out of ten cases never involve exposure to crude oil.  There             
 has never been an onshore crude spill in Alaska caused by an                  
 exploration rig.  He said that SB 239 creates a more realistic                
 environment for small independent exploration firms to operate in             
 Alaska.  Independent oil companies in the lower forty-eight have              
 historically discovered new basins and the wealth they generate is            
 usually retained within the state one hundred percent.  He believed           
 that SB 239 along with the proposed balanced exploration licensing            
 bill could stimulate renewed exploration in Alaska.  He urged                 
 favorable consideration of this legislation.                                  
                                                                               
 SENATOR LITTLE asked if under this legislation the state would                
 still be maintaining an adequate safety net.  SENATOR SHARP said              
 yes.  He believed the current situation stifles independent                   
 operations.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 399                                                                    
                                                                               
 RAY GILLESPIE, Association of Refined Fuel Distributors                       
 representing Crowley Maritime, Delta Western, and Petro-Marine,               
 spoke to Section 2 of SB 239.  He referred to the direct action               
 provision which allows the department to waive the requirement of             
 an insurance policy to state that the insurer will be sued directly           
 in the state.  This would create a permanent law.                             
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD explained that Section 2 extends the ability            
 to waive direct action indefinitely.  The other sections deal with            
 the incentive or disincentive of the liability amounts as they                
 apply to onshore operators.  SENATOR DONLEY clarified that Section            
 2 of the CS repeals a repealer on the section that allowed an                 
 exemption.                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LITTLE questioned how the new provisions of liability in              
 Section 1 came about.  VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD explained that those             
 provisions are an effort to make exploration licensing available              
 and workable for small independents.  The onshore production                  
 provisions are on a schedule that goes down to $1 million, while              
 the pipeline and offshore provisions remain unchanged.                        
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asked how many facilities in the state apply to                
 these categories added by this legislation.  SENATOR SHARP stated             
 that all onshore production facilities exceeding 10,000 barrels per           
 day would be subject to the existing $20 million limit.                       
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY inquired if this applied to operations taking a                
 limited amount of product from pipeline to refine.  MICHAEL CONWAY            
 informed the committee that the refineries are considered terminal            
 facilities who are addressed in AS 46.04.040.                                 
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY supported giving the department flexibility with               
 appropriate independent exploration when a reasonable protection of           
 public interests is included.  He said that if there has been no              
 problem with this and there is a low success rate; the insurance              
 should be cheap due to the small risk of damage.                              
                                                                               
 Number 508                                                                    
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD expressed concern with the regulatory                   
 structure that allows DEC to change the rules after an bid is won.            
 This could prohibit exploration after the initial process.  He                
 suggested that not allowing the standard to change during the                 
 period of an economic arrangement would weaken the ability to                 
 receive a decent bid or proposal.                                             
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asked if there is a way to lock them into those                
 requirements at a particular time.  VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted               
 that this program attempts to gain independence even in the face of           
 obstacles such as distance and climate that are not within the                
 government's control.                                                         
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked why shouldn't the department have                 
 regulatory authority; they could have more flexibility in the level           
 of insurance required for onshore exploration activities.  He asked           
 if insurance is available for independent onshore exploration.                
                                                                               
 SENATOR SHARP said that the insurance was not available to small              
 independent producers who form joint ventures to do an exploratory            
 well.  He pointed out that insurance is cheap and available if                
 one's net worth is considerably more than the anticipated loss.               
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asked if the $1 million level is offered to smaller            
 companies.  SENATOR SHARP did not know.                                       
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY indicated that the risks in various sites could be             
 so different that having one arbitrary sum for everyone does not              
 seem practical.  SENATOR SHARP maintained that such flexibility is            
 available through the Division of Oil & Gas and DNR.  Senator Sharp           
 said that site specific hazards can be addressed through the DNR              
 permit process.                                                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asked if the option for additional fiscal                      
 responsibility would be available when a particular site poses a              
 threat.  Furthermore, could additional bonding requirements be                
 added to the fiscal responsibility proof.                                     
                                                                               
 MICHAEL CONWAY clarified that concerns with specific drill sites              
 are worked through DNR on the bonding requirement.  The bonding               
 requirement of DNR wants to assure sufficient resources for site              
 clean up after the operation is over.  He said that in order to               
 allow smaller operators to get into business, they could work with            
 DNR reviewing their available bonds.  He noted that there is                  
 flexibility to target a specific site such as those near a                    
 sensitive habitat.                                                            
 TAPE 94-6, SIDE B                                                             
 Number 585                                                                    
                                                                               
 TOM LAKOSH, testifying from Anchorage, questioned what happens in             
 the event of a spill with connecting drainage or what happens to              
 the radioactive substances from a dry well, both apply to the Kenai           
 River area.  He stated that individual lessening would be more                
 appropriate than a total removal of the liability insurance                   
 requirements.  He noted that in the case of a small operator                  
 exploring an area with access to response equipment or other clean            
 up plans, liability could be reduced to encourage economic                    
 development.  He requested revising the amendment accordingly.                
                                                                               
 SENATOR JACKO moved to pass CSSB 239 out of the committee with                
 individual recommendations.  Hearing no objections, it was so                 
 ordered.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 523                                                                    
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD introduced  SJR 39  (RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR             
 ARMS) as the final order of business before the committee.                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN, prime sponsor, noted that he had hearings on SJR 39            
 around the state.  He stated that the consensus of his hearings was           
 that any change to the constitution should be clear and as simple             
 as possible.  He noted that SJR 39 does not prevent municipalities            
 from having restrictive ordinances.                                           
                                                                               
 DEAN GUANELI, Chief Assistant Attorney General in the Criminal                
 Division of the Department of Law, stated that the Department of              
 Law, the Department of Public Safety and the Alaska Association of            
 Chiefs of Police are in opposition to SJR 39.  He expressed their             
 belief that there was no need to amend the Alaska constitution, but           
 if amended it should not risk state firearms laws or the ability of           
 municipalities to enact firearms regulations.                                 
                                                                               
 Mr. Guaneli pointed out that according to reports from the Alcohol,           
 Tobacco and Firearms Bureau, Alaska has one of the most liberal               
 firearms laws in the country.  Guns can be openly carried anywhere            
 in Alaska and concealed while in your own home, on land adjacent to           
 your home, and while involved in legitimate outdoor activities.  He           
 said that by amending the constitution in a non explicit manner,              
 the power to determine the validity of the firearms laws would be             
 shifted from the legislature to the courts.  The courts would have            
 to interpret the new language by interpreting the legislative                 
 history.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Mr. Guaneli discussed the surprising results of the Raven Case.               
 The Alaska Supreme Court used The Right to Privacy to prohibit the            
 legislature from criminalizing marijuana possession by adult's in             
 their home.  He explained the U.S. Supreme Court's two tier                   
 analysis when determining the constitutionality of a law.  The                
 strict scrutiny analysis which must show a compelling overriding              
 state interest to prohibit an activity was applied in the Raven               
 Case.  He suggested the same type of analysis and decision would be           
 used with SJR 39.  He explained the correlation in Alaska to the              
 Oregon case regarding switch blade possession.                                
                                                                               
 Mr. Guaneli questioned the ability to prove a strict scrutiny                 
 analysis of Alaska state laws relating to felons in possession of             
 firearms, in some cases non-violent felons.  Under Alaska state law           
 a convicted felon cannot even live in a house if a family member              
 has a gun.  He reviewed the 1977 Colorado Supreme Court analysis of           
 their right to bear arms.  He asserted that many individuals                  
 believed that many of Alaska's laws would be in jeopardy if SJR 39            
 passes.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 407                                                                    
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked for the definition of assault weapons.            
 DEAN GUANELI explained that they are military type weapons which              
 the federal government was thinking about banning.  Mr. Guaneli               
 noted that such definitions were for the legislature to decide.               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if any assault weapons were currently             
 prohibited.  MR. GUANELI said that Alaska statutes contain weapons            
 prohibited by federal statutes.                                               
                                                                               
 DEAN GUANELI discussed a 1983 opinion.  He asked if private                   
 landlords could prohibit tenants from possessing weapons on rented            
 property under SJR 39.  He believed that such kinds of questions              
 would arise if the courts are not told how to interpret the                   
 amendments.  He also raised the issue of municipal ordinances.                
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asked if Mr. Guaneli believed that municipalities              
 should have the ability to prohibit handguns.  DEAN GUANELI said              
 that, in his opinion, municipalities should have the authority to             
 adopt reasonable firearms regulations to address local concerns.              
 Mr. Guaneli could not state a reasonable regulation.                          
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD questioned the current ordinance in Anchorage           
 dealing with the sale of used guns which is not enforced today due            
 to the resistance in the constitutionality question.                          
                                                                               
 Number 352                                                                    
                                                                               
 DEAN GUANELI asked what was wrong with localities having the power            
 to address local problems; this is similar to current local option            
 laws.  He discussed a conversation with a proponent of SJR 39.  SJR
 39 cannot stop the federal government from enacting firearms laws.            
                                                                               
 Mr. Guaneli detailed the history of the compromise he and Senator             
 Donley had proposed which recognized the individual right to bear             
 arms and at the same time does not change how the courts analyze              
 firearms laws.  He said that compromise is embodied in SJR 1.  He             
 expressed the desire not to adopt a strict scrutiny analysis.  The            
 Chiefs Association and Department of Public Safety support SJR 1.             
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the current constitutional language            
 applies to an individual right or some sort of collective right               
 that can be satisfied by a state militia, a national guard, or                
 something else.                                                               
                                                                               
 DEAN GUANELI said that the Department of Law believes that the                
 constitutional language applies to both the individual and the                
 militia.  Mr. Guaneli explained that the Alaska Supreme Court                 
 analysis reviews the historical view of arms and there usage, which           
 he believed would uncover a label of the individual right to bear             
 arms.  He stated that when labeling the question remains regarding            
 the ultimate consequence of the label.                                        
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD questioned why Mr. Guaneli is worried about             
 changes to standards for reasonable exclusions, when he also                  
 believes that the existing language protects the individual right             
 to keep and bear arms.  The proposed language does no more than               
 that.  DEAN GUANELI pointed to legislative history surrounding this           
 proposal which until now has rejected proposed amendments similar             
 to this.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 240                                                                    
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if Mr. Guaneli's proposed qualifying              
 language would ratify or protect Anchorage's ordinance regulating             
 transactions of used firearms.  He noted that the ordinance was               
 originally designed to track stolen firearms.  DEAN GUANELI said              
 that kind of law probably would not be considered reasonable in               
 today's world of computers.  VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD was concerned              
 about ratifying laws of 200 municipal entities having no common               
 lexicon or ratifying laws that you do not know about.                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that SJR 1 applies only to laws in existence            
 before the specified date, those would be considered under the                
 existing standard.  He clarified that existing laws would be                  
 measured under existing constitutional criteria, so if current laws           
 are unconstitutional they would still be unconstitutional.  The               
 standard of today would be used.                                              
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD expressed concern that the courts decision              
 may be six years later because those who have a standard considered           
 unreasonable do not enforce it for they know they will lose it.               
 The issue would be avoided because of the lack of enforcement.                
                                                                               
 DEAN GUANELI explained his belief that current laws should be able            
 to withstand a court test of current standards not future                     
 standards.                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN emphasized that the legislative history of SJR 39               
 makes clear that appropriate restrictions would continue to be so.            
 He stated that the intent to have a clean constitutional amendment            
 does no more than clarify what everyone already thinks the                    
 constitution means.  He said that Mr. Guaneli's fear of a clean               
 constitutional amendment was not founded in fact.  He suggested               
 that he and Mr. Guaneli agreed on the result but not the vehicle              
 which would achieve that result.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 121                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LITTLE asked Mr. Guaneli if passage of this resolution and            
 institution of this amendment to the constitution would not allow             
 a school district to prohibit guns from the school grounds.  DEAN             
 GUANELI stated that he did not believe that would be the case.  Mr.           
 Guaneli explained that particularly in the light of modern day                
 events, the court would find an overriding compelling state                   
 interest.  Mr. Guaneli stated that at some point the problem of               
 reasonableness arises when municipalities want to extend the zone             
 of protection.  He supported having clear lines drawn by the                  
 legislature or the municipality not by the courts.                            
                                                                               
 VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD questioned Mr. Guaneli on the reasonableness            
 of a municipality to prohibit the possession of a firearm in a                
 persons own home if they live within a specified zone of protection           
 of a school.  DEAN GUANELI clarified that he did not say in their             
 own home.                                                                     
                                                                               
 SENATOR LITTLE asked if the adoption of SJR 1 would alleviate Mr.             
 Guaneli's concerns.  DEAN GUANELI agreed with Senator Little and he           
 had other versions of language to accomplish the same thing.  VICE-           
 CHAIRMAN HALFORD requested a packet of all of Mr. Guaneli's                   
 information.  DEAN GUANELI said that there are a number of                    
 additional clauses that contain safer language.                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY expressed his belief that the proper standard for              
 firearms laws is a strict scrutiny review.  The legislature should            
 be able to regulate arms when there is a compelling public safety             
 interest.  He asserted that the compelling public safety interest             
 should be the test regarding whether laws are upheld or not; with             
 firearms very few safety requirements are not reasonable.                     
                                                                               
 JOHN GEORGE, representing the Alaska Outdoor Council, stated                  
 support of SJR 39.  He agreed with Senator Donley on the issue of             
 the strict scrutiny review being the standard for review.                     
                                                                               
   TAPE 94-6, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 010                                                                   
                                                                               
  MIKE CHRYST supported the comments made by John George.  He                  
 supported SJR 39.                                                             
                                                                               
 SALLY CHRYST supported SJR 39.                                                
                                                                               
 DAVID MCGRAW thanked Senator Leman for his on-going efforts to                
 protect his right to own guns.                                                
                                                                               
 SCOTT CORYELL supported SJR 39.                                               
                                                                               
 LES ZETTERBERG supported SJR 39.                                              
                                                                               
 LYLE STACK supported SJR 39.  He added that we focus more on the              
 criminals and keep them in jail.                                              
                                                                               
 WESLEY JONES supported SJR 39.                                                
                                                                               
 SCOTT HAMANN said he would support what Michael Neligh would say.             
                                                                               
 Number 118                                                                    
                                                                               
 MICHAEL NELIGH asked if they might consider inserting on line 10,             
 "the right of the adult individual".                                          
                                                                               
 GREG MACHACEK said it is in the overriding state's interest to                
 support this bill.  He said we are loosing more and more of our               
 rights every day and SJR 39 is a step in the right direction.                 
                                                                               
 Number 159                                                                    
                                                                               
 RUDY VETTER supported SJR 39.                                                 
                                                                               
 DAVID MILLER said he was a police officer.  He said the Chiefs of             
 Police (who are for gun control) do not speak for the line                    
 officers.  The majority of officers he works with support SJR 39.             
                                                                               
 DWAYNE UPPLAND said he had talked to some of the Chiefs in Alaska             
 and they didn't support the Brady Bill so he thought that was an              
 unfair comment.  He said he was very concerned that the language in           
 SJR 39 is ambiguous.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 200                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHARLES MCKEE supported SJR 39.  He added that the right to keep              
 and bear arms is a cornerstone of the right to free speech.                   
                                                                               
 PORTIA BABCOCK, Legislative Aide to the Senate State Affairs                  
 Committee, said the Municipality of Anchorage passed a resolution             
 endorsing this resolution.  Fairbanks, also, endorsed it; and Mat-            
 Su would probably pass one.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 250                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY commented that Dean Guaneli had done a very good job           
 of representing the Department of Law, Department of Public Safety,           
 and other law enforcement groups.  VICE-CHAIRMAN HALFORD agreed               
 with Senator Donley.                                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY said he supported the language in SJR 39.  He said             
 he would like to bring a letter of intent to the Committee                    
 clarifying the issue of the difference between a compelling state             
 interest and a reasonable state interest, because the higher                  
 standard is what's appropriate.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 290                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR JACKO called for the question on his motion to pass SJR 39            
 from committee with a "do pass" recommendation.  There were no                
 objections, and it was so ordered.                                            
                                                                               
 There being no further business before the committee the meeting              
 was adjourned.                                                                
                                                                               
                                                                               

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